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Bought bike that turned out far from what was described.


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#1 Brian Jones

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 09:30 AM

I bought a race bike recently from a member of this forum, who I will not name at the moment, it has turned out to be not as described & worth a lot less than I paid for it. I can't get this guy on the phone & I have sent numerous messages, but he replied to say he had lost too much money already, and wouldn't help me out.
Anyone had similar issues & how did you get sorted.

Thanks,
Brian.

#2 dicko333

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 09:50 AM

Name and shame I say mate

#3 jag64154

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 11:38 AM

I bought a race bike recently from a member of this forum, who I will not name at the moment, it has turned out to be not as described & worth a lot less than I paid for it. I can't get this guy on the phone & I have sent numerous messages, but he replied to say he had lost too much money already, and wouldn't help me out.
Anyone had similar issues & how did you get sorted.

Thanks,
Brian.


What are the issues with the bike?
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#4 RichRedRacing

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 12:18 PM

More info required before you hang him/her out to dry!
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#5 Oli

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 12:44 PM

Tricky one. Personally, I would be very very reluctant to name and shame on this forum.

There are a few issues to consider. The first is that there's always two sides to a story. On the one hand, we all rely on some honesty from the people we are buying from. It is just not practical to get a frame jigged before you pay for it to check the bike you are buying is straight. If it then turns out to be bent, well we'd all be rightfully p1ssed off. But at the same time, you are looking at what you're buying when you meet the guy. It's there in front of you to check out fully before you hand over any cash, and it's always up to the buyer to check what he is buying is what he thinks he is buying.

I'd also want to consider whether the person I was buying from had been deliberately misleading. At the end of the day, the guy selling is trying to make a sale. IMHO he's under no obligation to point out the faults in his product, but he is under obligation to tell the truth if you've asked. So if the motor hasn't seen a service in 5 seasons, I wouldn't expect the guy to tell me that if I didn't ask. If I go on track the next day and the engine blows, then ask him and he says "well mate, it hasn't been touched in 5 years", well then I've really only got myself to blame. BUT, if he tells me it was refreshed last week and it blows, then turns out it clealy hadn't been touched and I'd been lied to, then I'd certainly have an axe to grind.

And the final thing to consider is what you want to get out of it. Assuming you have considered the above points and still believe you have been ripped off, I expect what you'll want is all your money back in exchange for the bike, or some money back to make your costs more proportionate to the bike's actual value? Calling, emailing etc would be my first approach. If I didn't get anywhere, then it's time to be more forceful and there are numerous approaches. Off the top of my head, you could go and pay him a personal visit with some friends, or you could attempt legal action, depending on your style / resources. I'm sure both routes will have had success and failure in the past.

Even the threat of one of those may be as effective as the actual action itself. Something along the lines of "I'm taking legal action. I might not win, but if I do, I'm going after you for my legal costs too. Which will run into many thousands. So it's your choice, we can settle now for £500 or you can risk it going through the courts". You may or may not have a case, but most people wouldn't know for sure either way. If you show him that you are so p!ssed off you will stop at nothing to take it further, it puts him in a tough position - pay you off or face a mad-man hell bent on bankrupting both of you with legal fees! Become enough of a problem for him and it will at least make him consider whether it might not be easier to just pay you off and get rid of the problem after all.

Personally, I wouldn't name and shame the guy on the forum unless as a last resort as it won't really achieve anything. Experience says he'll probably come on here and argue his case, personal insults will get thrown and neither of you will make yourselves any friends. You will probably also damange any chance you had of getting any cash out of him.

But perhaps if that avenue has been firmly closed and you have nothing else left, at least naming him on here might make you feel you'll make others think twice about buying from him.

Like I said, a lot to consider. Just my thoughts.
Oli

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#6 Brian Jones

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 02:48 PM

What makes this more awkward is that I am in Northern Ireland & this guy is in England.
To be fair, he tried to sort the major issue. There was a problem with the frame which he had to replace, but I bought the bike as 2009 & have ended up with a 2006 frame, which limits where I can use it.
I bought the bike thinking it had been a race bike which had been dismantled, which needed a few items to finish, it turns out to be a collection of parts gathered together, some parts are damaged& there is a lot more required than I was led to believe.
In short, I have ended up with a collection of parts worth about 500 less than I paid. I don't want to cause any grief, all I want is some money back so I can finish the bike & go racing.

Brian

#7 live42day

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 03:17 PM

Name and shame! It may just stop him doing it to another member!!!!

#8 Brian Jones

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 04:30 PM

As I said, I don't want to do that unless I have to. I would like to thinkhe will learn from this. I have given him the benefit of the doubt, but I have lost patience now & need this sorted out.

Brian.

#9 Oli

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 05:47 PM

I bought the bike thinking it had been a race bike which had been dismantled, which needed a few items to finish, it turns out to be a collection of parts gathered together, some parts are damaged& there is a lot more required than I was led to believe.


Did you see the frame and parts before you paid him?
Were you ever provided with a list of the parts included within the sale?
Did you check for any missing parts either from the list (if you were provided with one) or from what you had mentally imagined you were going to get.
Did you check the condition of the parts before you paid him?

Please don't think I'm having a go, I don't know the answers to the above, but if it was me that was buying a bike made up of parts, I would want to know exactly what I was getting so I could form a list of exactly what I'd need to complete the bike. If wheels are included, do they include fitted discs? If discs are included but loose, does it included the carrier? That level of detail is needed because bikes are expensive, and a few small missing parts can quickly add up to a large additional cost.

If you didn't ask those questions or didn't check the expected parts were there when you saw the bike, then it's perhaps a bit of a harsh lesson for you? (Emphasis on the perhaps, I reiterate that I'm merely posing the questions, not looking for the answers).

If you did get a list of what you were supposed to get as part of the package, then it should be pretty straightforward for you to say "They're not here, not included, you've either accidentally left them out (please send them to me asap) or else you've lied to me, I want my money back". I appreciate saying that and actually getting your money back are quite different things but you get where I'm coming from.....

Oli

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#10 Brian Jones

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 06:48 PM

I was informed what would be required to finish the bike. The guy came over on the ferry & was going more or less straight back, but at 6 am in a poorly lit car park, it would have been extremely difficult to ascertain if there were all the parts to build a race bike. Most of the parts were wrapped up & all the major parts were obviously there, it was only later when I started to build the bike that I realised we had problems.





#11 skinnydog0_0

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:57 PM

What was the problem with the frame?
If you were buying a 2009 frame you should get a 2009 replacement frame, not a 2006 replacement.
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#12 Brian Jones

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 08:02 PM

I have had no joy with this guy over the last few days, so I sent him a message this evening telling him if he didn't contact me to get it sorted, I will out him on this forum. I have a feeling he thinks that because there is a bit of water between us, I won't be able to do anything to get any money back.
I have been completely reasonable, telling him I would have my money back & he can have the bits of bike, or I would have some money back to make what I got worth what I paid.

Brian.

#13 billymac

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 12:46 AM

Brian ,it happens all the time.
its not easy being a m/c dealer these days.
Hope you get it sorted
Cheers Billy.

#14 Brian Jones

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 08:03 AM

Thanks Billy, I will one way or another.

Brian.

#15 Brian Jones

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:54 AM

I have given this guy every opportunity to sort this situation out & he has not. If I don't get sorted out today I will post all the details of the deal & his name.

Brian.

#16 Richie

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 08:34 AM

I suspect if you name the chap then all the people who know him or had (good) dealings with him are going to come on here to defend his actions.
Just a thought.
Rich.
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#17 Lukewarmbeer

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 09:03 AM

When did you buy it, do you have a copy of the ad and if you do how did it differ from what you got?
Correlation is not causation

#18 Mike Edwards

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 08:19 PM

Small claims court will cost you 35 quid. Don't name and shame as it never achieves anything.

See www.minitwins.co.uk for the latest on the MiniTwins race series.


#19 quarrybends

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:53 PM

Only covers upto 5000 pounds claim limit and will currently cost 120 for an amount over 1001 and less than 5000.

#20 Mike Edwards

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 06:00 PM

Only covers upto £5000 pounds claim limit and will currently cost £120 for an amount over £1001 and less than £5000.


Surely all he wants is a frame to match the year of the bike he's bought plus whatever spares he finds he's missing at the end of the build.

I'm sure 5 grand will cover that little lot.

See www.minitwins.co.uk for the latest on the MiniTwins race series.





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