[Dusty]

After being inspected on Sunday at Brands I was interested what the consensus of opinion was regarding these inspections.

I'll nail my colours to the post early as I'm all in favor of this and more.


After removing the seat, tank and air box cover then having our intake's measured along with various other areas including air box and air intake we left with a clean bill of health.

I understand that twelve twins were inspected and out of that twelve, three failed, that's 25%, a very high percentage, 1 in 4.

This should have taken place at the first meeting at Brands to send a clear message that, shall I say "errors of judgement" will be dealt with appropriately . Don't get me wrong I'm glad it's taking place but the seasons almost over!

Are there teams in an exaggerated position because of these indiscretions through the year?

Not to mention the embarrassing grid line up in the last race, when a disqualified rider should have been at least at the back of the grid instead of five bikes on the second row.

However, I for one am glad that this is finally happening, I don't know what the reason for the exclusion's were, but it was obviously against the rules.

I love the Minitwin class, it is extremely friendly with great characters and riders, but winning at any cost should not be it's ethos.

To end on a positive.......bring on Snett, can't wait and already chomping at the bit.

[Woodside Micky]

Matey. I can state from personal experience that the rider is the one thing that technical inspection can't cover - yet most people will say they have they have an advantage just cos they are quick! Spend more time on your riding technique and less on worrying about "what do the others have" and you'll find that you can progress quicker and get results.

Fast bike needs a fast rider - fast riders don't Necessarily need a fast bike!

Enjoy !

This post has been edited by Woodside Micky: 27 July 2010 - 08:20 PM

[Dusty]

Hi there

Completely agree with comments on riders and we are satisfied with our performance but your some what missing the point, it's not about being fast or slow it's about cheating and how it's percieved and policed.

Just wanted some more feedback from members about what their opinions were, I dont get the mentality of success from cheating it's pretty hollow.

Hopefully its pretty rare.

[Mike Edwards]

The best way to stop paddock gossip and make sure everyone is running comparable machinery is to have regular technical checks. In my opinion the more often things are checked teh less likely anyone is to find anything wrong.

[chunkytfg]

From what I remember this isnt the first time the minitwins have been inspected this year and then a similar %age of riders failed for various things including tank spacers.

[bimps]

Those 25% Of Riders Most Probably Bought There Bikes That Way, And Did Not No Any Different. The Modifications To Their Bike Gave Them NO Performance Gain What So Ever. The Rules Need To Be Reviewed, Two Or Three Riders Were Disqualified For A Legal Modification, One Of The Riders Were Told "You May Have Them Blanked As Long As The Pipes Are Connected And Look Like They're Working". Where Is The Logic In That?
I Personally Think "Technical Inspection" Should Check More Performance Enhancing Modifications Such As; Reprofiled Cams (Extremely Easy To Check.), Also Skimmed Heads/Barrels. Kit Gear Box's.

And For The Rider That " should have been at least at the back of the grid instead of five bikes on the second row." He Was Disqualified, Then Protested And Was Reinstated To His Position According To The Clerk Of The Course.

Maybe Discuss Your Issues With The People You Have The Problem With Rather Than Make It Public.

As For The Racing, It Was Great At The Weekend. Close And FAIR.

[bimps]

Woodside Micky, on 27 July 2010 - 09:15 PM, said:

Matey. I can state from personal experience that the rider is the one thing that technical inspection can't cover - yet most people will say they have they have an advantage just cos they are quick! Spend more time on your riding technique and less on worrying about "what do the others have" and you'll find that you can progress quicker and get results.

Fast bike needs a fast rider - fast riders don't Necessarily need a fast bike!

Enjoy !

i Totally Agree With Your Comments!

[Mike Edwards]

bimps, on 28 July 2010 - 10:07 PM, said:

Those 25% Of Riders Most Probably Bought There Bikes That Way, And Did Not No Any Different. The Modifications To Their Bike Gave Them NO Performance Gain What So Ever. The Rules Need To Be Reviewed, Two Or Three Riders Were Disqualified For A Legal Modification, One Of The Riders Were Told "You May Have Them Blanked As Long As The Pipes Are Connected And Look Like They're Working". Where Is The Logic In That?
I Personally Think "Technical Inspection" Should Check More Performance Enhancing Modifications Such As; Reprofiled Cams (Extremely Easy To Check.), Also Skimmed Heads/Barrels. Kit Gear Box's.

And For The Rider That " should have been at least at the back of the grid instead of five bikes on the second row." He Was Disqualified, Then Protested And Was Reinstated To His Position According To The Clerk Of The Course.

Maybe Discuss Your Issues With The People You Have The Problem With Rather Than Make It Public.

As For The Racing, It Was Great At The Weekend. Close And FAIR.

Any rider needs to take responsibility for the specification of their machine.

To clarify, for an engine to be considered standard the 'second air reed valve' and the plastic vent cover need to be in place. You can block off these covers or the tube connecting to them but they must be present.

Any rider not having the secondary butterflies in place is clearly breaking the rules. It isn't hard to check as a rider so there really is no excuse. Removing the valve and the vents is clearly not legal either.

The only way to make sure people understand the rules is to encourage them to read them. If they aren't interested in understanding or abiding by the rules then, unfortunately, such technical inspections are required.

Strange how the Bemsee office weren't aware of the reinstating of the rider that took up their incorrect grid position and the rider should always abide by the direction given to them by the officials on the grid and in the collecting area otherwise anarchy will ensue.

This post has been edited by Mike Edwards: 28 July 2010 - 09:32 PM

[William#46]

It's riders responsibility to ensure there bikes are legal. Reading the rules isn't hard.

It's not first time bikes have been checked this year

Kit gearbox would be picked up on dyno same with cams and gas flow unless the fueling is that bad that the power and curve are "normal" looking

So what legal mods were initially declared illegal?

[bigr250]

bimps, on 28 July 2010 - 10:07 PM, said:

Those 25% Of Riders Most Probably Bought There Bikes That Way,

Whilst that is obviously a real possibility, how on earth can you 'slate' someone for making this public, then write something as random as this??

bimps, on 28 July 2010 - 10:07 PM, said:

Maybe Discuss Your Issues With The People You Have The Problem With Rather Than Make It Public.

To me, he was simply asking other peoples opinion on the issue of eligability etc, what's wrong with that, it's a chat forum isn't it?

bimps, on 28 July 2010 - 10:07 PM, said:

As For The Racing, It Was Great At The Weekend. Close And FAIR.

The racing might well have been "Great" but if any rider had an unfair advantage (whether he finished 2nd or 2nd to last) the racing can not be considered "Close And Fair", if a rider was cheating it would have been 'close & UNFAIR'!!

Just an opinion.

RT.

[Sarah Jordan]

In my opinion, some issues are actually being caused by some smaller clubs not checking and or enforcing the rules. The bikes that run with them then filter their way down after being sold on, into other clubs that do take the rules alot more seriously.

So far this season I have seen numerous bikes that customers have brought in for work, that have had - ported heads, illegal cams, TRE's fitted, tank risers, airbox modifications, aftermarket suspension linkages, master cylinders from different bikes that have a different bore etc.

On every occasion the owner has been notified and shown the illegal item/s. Now id say 98% of these bikes have come from either trackday riders that have prepped an SV650 and then sold it on as a minitwin not being fully aware of what constitutes a legal bike and or the bike has come from a club that use Minitwin rules by name only.

Obviously I/we cant remove these items, that is down to the owner of the bike. Ive spoken with the Tech official responsible for Minitwins and made him aware of the above problem areas. Yes it is the owners/riders responsibility to ensure their bike is legal. Some riders arent mechanical at all and thats where education will help them to ensure their bike is legal. Id also say to them, please do read the rules and if you are not sure then ask someone who knows!.

Now some mods really wouldnt do much or make much difference when it comes to a rider gaining an advantage. Some also would be picked up when run on a dyno, such as a Nova gearbox (Steve runs one) and possibly cam timing etc. Mark when he is running on the dyno is very good at picking up suspect bikes from sound and the curve.

IMHO Bemsee is one of best clubs when it comes to rule enforcement within the class and ive found the guys always willing to listen and discuss ideas etc.

Sadly there will always be bikes out there in no matter what class that dont quite meet the rules, we would all be burying our head in the sand if we didnt open upto that. Its how its dealt with thats important.

Id suggest if anyone is concerned as to whether the bikes are being checked properly, regulary enough and or their is something about a certain bike that your not sure about then go and chat with the officials and or class rep, no matter what class your running in.

[Cool Dood Scroot]

Can we just correct some misunderstandings here. Two Minitwins were reported for failing post-race technical inspections on Saturday, and one on Sunday. The Clerk of Course disqualified all three from the results. There was no protest against his decision, and they were not re-instated. If further clarification is needed, please check the published results on the Bemsee website.

[coxxy]

Having been checked five times in the last year already (once for fuel, three times dyno and this weekend for airbox spec etc) its a shame that a few of the fellas have been caught out, although knowing the riders involved this time I believe there is unlikely to be calculated cheating involved. When we purchased our own machine 2 years ago it had one or two oddities on it which we came to know as against regs and so removed them as our knowledge increased - we have worked to ensure it is fully compliant since, just in case we end up at the front! The Minitwin class is rightly well governed and policed to keep it fair - thanks Bemsee - and with one exception this year I think the rules have been applied as fairly as possible within the resources of the scrutineering system at the club. Its hard to fathom the philosophy of riders and teams who have their machinery consciously tweeked illegally with engine mods etc that are hard to identify, the dyno may hopefully catch them anyway. I cant imagine what it is like to win or podium knowing you have an illegal bike making it unfair on others. Perhaps it would be an idea for bikes to be more thoroughly checked at the beginning of the season as a technical amnesty so that new riders dont get caught out by the errors of others they have purchased from and are given time to sort them.
There are enough things one can do to SV's to make them perform well - all within the rules - like get yourself a good rider for example. Seemed to make Mark Hills bike go well enough on Saturday. Or is shifting 2 stone of lard off the bike illegal too ?
Coxxy

[Mattzx6r]

Dusty, on 27 July 2010 - 07:10 PM, said:

After being inspected on Sunday at Brands I was interested what the consensus of opinion was regarding these inspections.

I'll nail my colours to the post early as I'm all in favor of this and more.

Going back to the original question; I'm also in favour of regular tech inspections.

I've opted for minitwins for the very reason that it's ethos is that of cheap fair fun racing. I don't have the cash (or the desire actually) to kit a bike out with Kit gearboxes, ported heads and the like, if I did I expect I'd be riding in the open classes.

The only way to deter people from spending the cash to gain an advantage in an unfair way is random checks, just as they do drug tests with competitors in the Olympics, and action against those who decide they wish to compete but not follow the rules.

I sympathise with those who buy bikes with illegal mods on them, I could very well be one of those people at the moment, but the rules are published to make things fair. I know I'd much rather find out about an illegal mod on my machine at the first race and not half way in to the season...

With more checks there would surely only be less chuntering on and accusations of cheating from aggrieved competitors.

[Pit B*tch 86]

On Sunday after Race 1 I (Paul Witherington #86) was pulled in for a Technical Inspection, which I was more than happy to comply with, these technical inspections are part and parcel of the minitwin series and I fully support and welcome them as they are essential so the class remains fair and true. After taking off my tank and airbox, it was noticed that I did not have a secondary butterly valve. Before this inspection I can confess to not knowing what these valves were and what they did. I did question what effect this had as I really didn’t/don’t know. I did also speak with someone who contacted the Clerk of the course for that day on my behalf (this was not a formal appeal and I now also know that this is not the way it should be done), and I was under the impression that at that time that it was undecided if I was to be disqualified or not. I now know that Mike Edwards, series founder, was consulted and advised the officials that the valve that I was missing categorically meant that my bike was not within the rules and I was consequently disqualified. The rules are the rules and I had not complied.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I am guilty of not checking that every single part of the bike complied with the rules and I am definitely not guilty of trying to cheat deliberately. My bike has also been Dyno’d several times this year and has never failed the test or even reached peak power, I have also had fuel checked and have, believe it or not been part of a previous technical inspection at the first round at Brands. As I said earlier though, the rules are the rules and I understand completely that even though this was not deliberate on my part, that what my bike didn’t have meant that it was illegal and I had failed to check this and I was correctly and fairly disqualified.

Unfortunately on the day and certainly before Race 2 this was not clear to me and this is what caused the grid mix up. I mistakenly assumed that because I had not heard any more about it and as I had a results sheet collected from the office that included me in the results and showed me in 5th position, that I should line up 5th on the grid. I can’t honestly remember what the official said to me in the collecting area as in that race I had a pretty big off and it turned out I was concussed, but I genuinely thought that 5th was where I should be. If I was aware, as I am now, that I had been disqualified I would never have attempted to line up 5th on the grid. I know now that the Amended results were issued but I hadn’t seen them.

Basically I bought and rode a bike that I believed to be a true “minitwin”. I haven’t made any modifications since I bought the bike, and I wouldn’t know how to if I wanted to. Basic repairs are all I am capable of. Whether you choose to believe that or not is obviously your choice.

I actually share the views of most people on here and can’t see what pleasure anyone would get from success through cheating and to be honest I am totally embarrassed and gutted by the whole thing. I hope other people learn from my mistake and do not take it for granted that their bike conforms. If you are like me and technically useless, get someone else to check, do not just take it for granted.

I destroyed my bike in the crash I had on Sunday afternoon, hopefully I will be back on track at Snetterton for the final round of the year, if not I will definitely be there in person to return the trophy from Race 1 to the rightful owner and hopefully have a beer and a catch up with everyone in the paddock even if I can’t get the bike sorted.

Paul Withy #86

[davies]

Hi all,As being a newcomer to this class and hopefully be having a run out before the end of the season,Ive heard
people talking and want to clarify before buying & fitting a set of these,Are inletor exhaust camshafts from a injection model allowed to be fitted to a curvy model ??????ALSO ARE SHORTER DOG BONES LEGAL TO BE USED????

I would rather someone shout out to me now please.....
Many Thanks

Lee Davies(new mini twinner)

[Oli]

Has any of the illegal minitwinners turned up at a meeting and said "Hey guys, I've just brought this bike and I don't know a swingarm from a fork, any chance someone could take a look because I don't want to go breaking any regs"?

I appreciate not everyone is a Jerry Burgess in training (including me!), and bikes are technical machines that can leave the best baffled.

But tough luck, rules are rules and ignorance is not an excuse. Even those that don't understand the technical ins and outs of their machine can understand that their machine must be legal, and that it is their responsibility to ensure it is.

There is a paddock full of help available for those that don't possess the technical skills themselves. I believe few cases of cheating, especially at club level, are intentional attempts to gain an unfair advantage, but that is irrelevant. Break the rules and you face the consequences, it's the only way the sport can work.

Oli

[chunkytfg]

davies, on 29 July 2010 - 08:49 PM, said:

Hi all,As being a newcomer to this class and hopefully be having a run out before the end of the season,Ive heard
people talking and want to clarify before buying & fitting a set of these,Are inletor exhaust camshafts from a injection model allowed to be fitted to a curvy model ??????ALSO ARE SHORTER DOG BONES LEGAL TO BE USED????

I would rather someone shout out to me now please.....
Many Thanks

Lee Davies(new mini twinner)

Nope they are not legal(dogbones that is) however injected cams can be put in a curvy bike as homologated so that means inlet cam in inlet side and exhaust cam in exhaust side.

If you are in any doubt then check out the minitwin website for a full run down of the full regs and come along to a meeting and ask to have a look round some bikes. We are a friendly bunch who will gladly show you the finer points of the bikes

[Mike Edwards]

coxxy, on 29 July 2010 - 03:53 PM, said:

erhaps it would be an idea for bikes to be more thoroughly checked at the beginning of the season as a technical amnesty so that new riders dont get caught out by the errors of others they have purchased from and are given time to sort them.

That is exactly what happened at the first round. One rider had their bike inspected and was told not to return until it was fully MiniTwins legal.

[Mike Edwards]

One thing we are trying to clamp down on is other clubs using the MiniTwins name without permission and, in some cases, with no intention of enforcing the rules. There is even one club that has copied selected parts of our rules word for word and effectively say they can't be bothered to check.

There has also been some confusion with certain road racing organisations adopting the name MiniTwins, or Mini-Twins, to mean a 650 twin when they aren't really MiniTwins at all. Hopefully we can persuade them to call their classes something else as we own the rights to the name MiniTwins.

Hopefully we can get these clubs to change the name of whatever the class they think they are running so that it is clearer in the future what someone means when they describe their bike as a MiniTwin.